President Donald Trump went toe to toe with Democratic up-and-comer Beto O’Rourke during dueling rallies in El Paso, Texas, on February 11. The former representative, who made his name challenging Ted Cruz for the Senate in 2018, reportedly had thousands attend as he gave a speech in the border town, as did the president. And as he did at his 2017 inauguration, Trump made a lot of noise about crowd size.

“A young man who's got very little going for himself except he's got a great first name — he challenged us. We have, say, 35,000 people tonight, and he has, say, 200 people, 300 people," Trump said, according to The Hill. "Not too good. In fact, what I would do — that may be the end of his presidential bid." According to NBC News, Trump returned to the subject of O’Rourke’s rally later in his speech saying, “Beto O’Rourke had a wonderful rally, although about 15 people.”

Although crowd size can be a tricky thing to estimate, it’s clear that O’Rourke had far more folks listening to his speech than Trump estimated onstage. Reporters for Bloomberg and The Wall Street Journal said city officials estimated between 10,000 and 15,000 were in attendance to hear O’Rourke speak.

And Trump’s estimate of 35,000 for his own crowd size may be off-base, too. Enrique D. Aguilar, a public information officer with the El Paso Fire Department, told the El Paso Times that the stadium where Trump’s rally was held had the capacity for only 6,500 people. While there were 6,500, Aguilar said Trump had not asked for a special allowance to let 10,000 people in, as Trump claimed onstage. Aguillar said that, altogether, about 10,000 people "might" have been in attendance when people outside the arena watching screens were counted, but that the fire department didn't track the crowds outside.

Trump’s rally was on brand, since it had banners reading “Finish the Wall,” according to the Associated Press. The AP reported that Trump didn’t provide his supporters with the details of a government-shutdown-averting $1.4 billion deal to build 55 miles of new border wall — not quite the $5.7 billion he was seeking for more than 200 miles of wall.

Trump previously mentioned El Paso in his State of the Union address, saying that the city "used to have extremely high rates of violent crime" before a border barrier was erected. But facts appear to contradict the president's analysis, as the El Paso Times cited, reporting that violent-crime figures rose after the wall’s construction began and was completed.

O’Rourke took this on directly in his speech, saying the city was “safe not because of walls but in spite of walls [and] secure because we treat one another with dignity and respect.” O’Rourke praised what he called the “binational” community “joined, not separated, by the Rio Grande river.” He blamed El Paso’s wall for making the city less safe.

“We are the example that the United States of America needs right now," O’Rourke told the El Paso crowd, according to Politico. "This is where we make our stand!”

“I’m back in the mix around an issue that could not be more important for our country and for our community,” O’rourke told Politico ahead of his speech, referencing the border barrier issue. “All of us right now have a responsibility to do all that we can, and this is me doing my best.”